I came across this post on Facebook / Gear Talk group yesterday and it caught my eye. So the post states that boutique pedals are all using cheap Chinese PCBs. This is a quote – “Big companies are selling boutique amps and pedals, claiming they are so exclusive, made like a piece of art, but actually it is all chinese cheap pc board, like everything else. It is getting hard to identify the real good stuf from the scam. You guys probably heard about the Friedman/Wampler/Egnater case.” A video was posted enforcing this thought. Check it out below and I’ll continue after.
This video really bugs me on multiple levels. There are wide sweeping assumptions and generalizations here. The comments also bugged me with the same generalizations stating brands that never break, etc. All brands have the possibility of issues.
When people give me pedals to work on/fix, I often get asked if that’s due to abuse or problem with the manufacturer, etc. My line that I say all the time, and pardon my language – “Shit breaks”. When I say that, I mean, that parts will, can and might break. It could be due to manufacturer techniques, quality control, component failure and user abuse.. or just bad luck.
When people talk about cheap Chinese PCBs, I personally like made-in-the-US PCBs myself, but I can’t think of a time where a PCB ‘failed’. That’s just stupid people, saying stupid things. I’ve seen PCBs crack (due to abuse) but an untouched, random failure on a PCB?? Come on.
What commonly breaks on pedals? Pots, switches and jacks. Am I right? What are those parts? The parts that get used, stepped on and generally abused on a constant basis?
In my community, I’m the guy that often gets asked to fix pedals. It’s fun, I like problem solving, and generally easy to fix. I’ve fixed really expensive boutique pedals. I’ve fixed cheap crap. I’ve fixed vintage stuff. Shit breaks. It’s not a scam where boutique companies are trying to pull something on you. Boutique companies are passionate about what they do. They often are small to very small businesses trying to carve a living out of something they love to do.
The video also complains that he’s contacting the retailer about replacement – and dropping some attitude about the lack of response or lack of returned product. The beauty of boutique companies, you can contact them directly. Many of them have their own warranty or repair policy, and are eager to get you up and running. Talking to the middle man just creates work for the middle man.. I would go direct when you have issues.
This conversation is like going to a small restaurant and getting a bad meal. Generally, in the past you got great meals, but that one time you got a bad meal. Then saying, I’m only going to McDonalds, because I got a bad meal at this fancy small business restaurant. They suck. I got scammed by that restaurant. You know how much lettuce costs.. and the piece of meat and they overcharged me. I can get the same at Mickey D’s for a 1/4 of the price.
Thoughts?
-
7 years ago
Nice article. I would suggest that pedal owners who want to return a pedal … they should return it to whoever they bought it from. That might be a store/dealer or it might be direct from manufacturer. Repair / warranty issues should be taken straight to the manufacturer.
Reply -
7 years ago
The Chinese PCB thing is just silly, just finished an entire round of Vibration testing for both Surface Mount and Through Hole Components with them and they hold up great. Viewing manufacturing quality based on location is antiquated and a little silly. I also agree that sometimes going direct to the manufacturer is the best step (especially if you shop the used market like most of us do). Generally small builders will go to great lengths to help you out. I have had great experiences where boutique companies even fixed gear that was damaged in a flood. Watching the end of the video it does sound like their is a bad batch of switches floating around, I am sure the manufacturers are scrambling now to fix and QC everything.
Reply -
7 years ago
That dude’s video leaves me perturbed among other feelings. Many brands, such as zvex, have a lifetime warranty, no questions asked. Often times, when someone mentions all of the trouble they have with effects, such as this dude, I always wonder what power supply they are using or if they’ve ever read a user manual.
Reply -
7 years ago
You obviously haven’t been into electronics long enough to know but there are issues with board layout and even defective PCBs!
I know because I am currently working on a Marshall with a defect in both layout and PCB. What went wrong with the PCB?
Well, it appears that over time, due to heat, the PCB actually breaks down to the point of being conductive!
Yes, the power to the power tubes grid 2 is bleeding over to grid 1with G1 being negative bias voltage and G2 high voltage forcing G1 into a less negative region and out of bias.
It’s enough to blow tubes.
So yes, in fact, PCBs can go bad.
If you don’t believe me Google search Marshall JCM2000 blown fuse or what ever. There is plenty on the topic.With well over 4000 fuzz boxes on the market today you are bound to get a bunch using cheap parts due to inexperience or shallow wallets but you should be able to scan a gut shot to kinda tell what the deal is. This isn’t the norm but it may be in the DiY crowd so please let’s not confuse the two.
Reply -
7 years ago
From a professional engineer who designs audio electronics for 20 years. There is nothing wrong with “Chinese PCBs.” High quality PCBs can be sourced from China, much of the PCB manufacturing for high volume has been moved off shore.
Yes PCBs do fail. Low quality PCBs have problems with traces de-laminating, vias cracking. There can also be etching problems with badly designed PCBs (i.e. acid traps) It is true that generally PCB don;t fail, but I have fixed a TON of Electro Harmonix PCBs over the years. The only failures were a connection in the PCB.
The poor switch and the quality control issues, on the other hand aren’t good. The MFR should stand behind the product and treat the customer right, and fix their supply chain. Some of the brands are taking advantage for sure. Hold the manufacturers accountable by calling them out.
Reply -
7 years ago
Ha! That’s Phil McKnight. He’s a Youtuber, guitar teacher, and former shop owner, and this is an older video. I’m not going to defend him, but he can be pretty cool, too. Now, as to the topic at hand- yes, everything can break. I will go down fighting saying that Noisemaker Effects are fantastic, and I’ve had one of their pedals crap out on me. So, I’m not unreasonable. However, there is a difference in how and why something breaks. For example, I got a Movall chorus pedal that shorted out on me almost immediately. Since shipping it back to China would cost more than the pedal was worth, I opened it up, only to discover the source of the problem: the PCB was cracked in half. Likewise, I had a Caline distortion pedal that I opened after it broke to discover that the “ground wire” was a string of silicon glue. Now, lest you think this is yet another “China China China” grumble- I have, use and Love some Mooer and Hotone pedals- it’s not about country of origin, it’s about how much you can trust the engineering. There are some companies, even big name ones, that I just don’t trust. Right off the top of my head- while I wouldn’t say it about all of EHX, the Electro Harmonix “nano” series of pedals have never worked out for me- and it’s been so often ( 5 different pedals) that I give up- I don’t trust the engineering on them, any more. So, if that company has similar problems and is “boutique”- i.e. higher price, fewer employees, etc- I can see how somebody would get frustrated enough to say “No more”. Add to that, certain companies are run by “eccentric” personalities and I can see how some folks might say ” I can’t trust any of these crazy people”. On top of that, yes, some “Boutique” builders are, in fact, scamming people- basically doing a lousy version of an existing circuit, but slapping some really cool artwork on the enclosure, and selling it for way too much money. Also, we cannot discount that there is no “universal” application- not everyone is going to find a use for a transparent overdrive, or glitchy fuzz, and might really regret buying a 300 dollar pedal that is of no more use to them than a 50 dollar pedal. What I am saying is that it’s a minefield out there- and it really requires a lot of research, and a lot of trial and error- so I am grateful to anyone who is trying to warn the public about bad experiences, even if I’ll take that warning as “just their experience”. It’s like Amazon reviews- I will read a 3 star review a lot more carefully than a 5 star, simply because I don’t care if you loved it, I want to know if I’ll love it. So, are boutique pedals a scam? Not all, but, some are definitely not good for me, and I think that’s the real lesson.
Reply -
7 years ago
I own a boutique pedal shop and none of those are boutique pedals, they’re just US made. I wouldn’t carry any of these brands.
And about the lack/slow response from the online dealer. Well just buy your stuff from a local retailer and you’ll get the service…
Also using a good power supply will fix/prevent 80% of your issues with pedals.
Reply -
7 years ago
Nice article… I couldn’t agree more with the last paragraph, and your general thoughts of ‘shit breaks’. Yeah, it does… and with some of the people I’ve done work for, with regularity. You can tell right off when a vendor has used ‘chinky-charlie’ hardware, it wasn’t made to last, it WILL break and it most likely won’t take a long period time…
Generally speaking tho, if you want Chicken… you order Chicken… there are many vendors with a good track record – my advice would be to do the due diligence, and purchase accordingly… or if you can, build it yourself… *winks*
Reply -
7 years ago
What does the average player in our community think when buying a botique pedal…that such pedals are built in a small workshop, hand assembled component by component by wee people with pointy ears who sprinkle the innards of each pedal with magic dust before closing it up? Everyone who is a serious boutique builder is going to utilize a custom built PCB and not everything Chinese is equivalent junk. I’m the original owner of pedals that are close to 40 years old that work as well as when I bought them, i.e., superbly and I have newer ones up to one brand new I bought last week. Some are botique abs some mass produced. I’ve had one pedal out of the 100+ that I’ve owned in close to 40 years as a player…the fix was real simple. So a failure rate of <1% with an easy repair that restored it (a faulty switch). That's a good record in anyone's book. I can't complain one whit. The trick is don't abuse them, allow them to be baptized in beer or vomit while gigging at the local watering hole and in general take good care of them.
Reply -
7 years ago
What’s the Friedman /Wampler /Egnater case? I thought I follow pedals closely, but I don’t know what that was.
Reply -
7 years ago
Sounds like this guy has just had an unfortunate bit of luck, and is blaming everyone for this. Clearly he’s never dealt with companies like Fuzzrocious or Earthquaker Devices.
Reply -
7 years ago
He complains to the grocery store when he gets one bad strawberry out of a full bushel and refers to them as “all being bad”. I’ve delt w/ JHS, Keeley, Wampler and even EVH. All have stellar customer service and back their products 100%. That’s what keeps me going back for more.
Reply -
7 years ago
George Blekas: drop your attitude, mate. From someone who’s been doing it since the ’80s- while what you speak of is true in principle, the current in a JCM is significantly higher in the gain stages of a JCM (you did say it was in the valve power path) than your average pedal. So, principle- correct. Application in the real world of pedals- nowhere near your rant. Times I’ve seen the effect in over 30 years- maybe 10, and from what I remember all we name pedals, and caused by incorrect input voltages. Hardly a cause for alarm.
Reply